The Wild Lab

Ned Weidner talks with Mark Hall of Wild Origins Canada about how hunting, trapping, and forestry connect to conservation, ecology, and public storytelling. Mark shares how his lifelong relationship with the land shaped his work as a forester, writer, podcaster, and advocate for hunters and rural communities.We discuss why hunting can deepen environmental awareness, how public narratives distort hunters’ motivations, and why Project Grizzly Balance aims to bring marginalized rural voices back into the conservation conversation.
Follow Wild Origins Canada: https://www.instagram.com/wildorigins_canada/
Want to get in touch with nature: https://www.instagram.com/nedweidner/ 
Key topics
Mark shares his background as a third generation hunting and trapping family member from British Columbia, and how his relationship with nature shaped his identity from childhood.
We discuss the idea that hunting is not about indifference to animals, but about a deeper form of participation, attention, and responsibility on the landscape.
Mark explains how being a hunter changes what he notices in the field, using snowshoe hare tracking as an example of how hunting creates a more intimate read of habitat and animal behavior.
He reflects on how forestry became part of his path after a wildlife biologist told him that habitat decisions can have a larger impact on wildlife than individual animal management.
We discuss the shift from working within resource industries to becoming a public voice for hunters, trappers, anglers, and conservation-minded rural communities.
Mark describes the core problem as a misunderstanding of hunters’ motivations, with critics often assuming hunting is about ego, killing, or domination.
He explains why storytelling is the main tool he uses to reach the moderate middle, reframe assumptions, and present the true heart of hunters in a way that lands with broader audiences.
We discuss the limits of social media, the way algorithms reward outrage, and why Mark wants more face to face conversations and public speaking in the future.
Mark outlines how removing hunting or trapping can have unintended conservation consequences, including reduced research, less accountability, and weaker data collection.
We discuss Project Grizzly Balance, which aims to restore balance between grizzly bears and rural people in Western Canada by elevating ranchers, trappers, outfitters, and local residents whose experiences are often ignored.
Mark argues that conservation is not about iconic species alone, but about relationships within entire ecosystems, from soil mycorrhizae and dominant plant communities to predators and prey.
He closes by inviting listeners to connect with Wild Origins Canada and the broader Origins Foundation to continue the conversation.
Timestamps
00:00 - Recording setup and warm welcome00:29 - Introducing Mark Hall and the Wild Origins Canada connection02:13 - Mark’s third generation hunting and trapping upbringing04:28 - Hunting as responsibility, not indifference05:27 - How carrying a gun changes how Mark sees the land06:57 - Snowshoe hare as a lesson in active ecological awareness08:50 - Why hunters and non hunters often misunderstand each other10:42 - Reading habitat, predators, and fire history through pursuit14:21 - No hierarchy between outdoor users, only different relationships15:20 - Humanizing hunters, trappers, and anglers for conservation17:21 - Childhood signs of care and the path toward wildlife work18:18 - Why forestry became the better route for influencing habitat20:42 - The grizzly bear debate in British Columbia and the need for advocacy22:10 - Why silencing hunters harms conservation itself24:14 - The real false narrative about hunters’ motivations27:56 - Story as the most powerful tool for changing minds29:49 - Using podcasts, film, and public speaking to reframe debates33:07 - Adapting language for different audiences34:29 - Knowing every campfire is listening, even hostile ones35:57 - Conversations with skeptics and anti hunting advocates36:55 - Why Mark is shifting toward more in person outreach38:06 - How algorithms reward outrage over nuance40:29 - The conservation cost of not telling these stories well41:27 - What happened to grizzly bears after hunting was banned in BC42:54 - Why research and accountability decline when hunting disappears44:17 - Why removing hunting can be detrimental to healthy systems46:46 - California cougars and the transition into Project Grizzly47:17 - The premise of Project Grizzly Balance48:46 - Ranchers, grizzlies, and lived experience on the land50:07 - Giving marginalized rural voices a place in public conservation debate53:30 - Why the project is fundamentally storytelling54:12 - Charismatic megafauna, sacred species, and the hunting debate55:49 - Digging into animal sign and the intimate knowledge hunting creates56:44 - Sustainable relationship versus sustainable use58:39 - Accepting death as part of life and wildlife relationships60:21 - How social media weaponizes fear, outrage, and emotion63:11 - Ecology as relationships, not isolated individual species65:05 - Why ecosystems are not just a sum of parts66:02 - The role of dominant species and the bigger ecosystem picture67:00 - Soil mycorrhizae as the true keystone engine of terrestrial life68:17 - Seeing grizzlies through habitat, plant community, and soil relationships69:16 - The spider web of ecosystem interactions70:16 - A paradigm shift toward interconnected thinking72:49 - Where to find Wild Origins Canada and continue the conversation

Join Ned Weidner and Marc Bekoff in a profound conversation as they explore animal emotions, morality, deep ecology, and the ethical responsibilities of humans in natural ecosystems. Discover insights from decades of ethology research and how we can rewild our hearts to foster coexistence with wildlife.
Check out Marc's Work: https://marcbekoff.com/ 
Work with Ned: https://www.instagram.com/nedweidner/
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Marc Bekoff's Journey03:06 The Influence of Childhood on Animal Connection05:58 The Nonlinear Path to Animal Behavior Research09:00 Academic Challenges and Ethical Considerations11:59 The Role of Coincidence in Life's Journey14:54 Deep Ethology and Slow Watching17:59 Rewilding Our Hearts and Understanding Animal Emotions20:58 Paradigm Shifts in Animal Behavior Science32:34 Understanding Animal Sentience35:01 The Importance of Compassionate Conservation39:52 The Role of Death in Nature52:11 Human-Animal Coexistence01:00:32 Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Reflections
 

In this engaging interview, Kelly Kate shares her journey from trail work and wilderness adventures to becoming a backcountry cook and wilderness guide. Discover how her work supports conservation, community building, and personal transformation in the wilderness.
Check out Kelly's work: https://www.instagram.com/thebackcountrycook/ 
If you want to get into the mountains with Ned: https://www.stepintoyourwild.com/ 
 
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene02:09 Kelly's Journey into the Wilderness05:30 Lessons from Mules and Communication06:57 The Art of Backcountry Cooking10:14 The Role of Animals in Community Building12:10 Facilitating Ancestral Relationships with Animals13:36 Diverse Clientele and Their Needs16:35 Cooking Philosophy in the Backcountry21:22 Women in the Packing Industry26:38 Mental Health Benefits of Wilderness28:32 Creating Safe Spaces in Nature29:20 The Beauty of Alpine Meadows and Perspective30:30 How the Backcountry Saved Lives31:58 Relationships with Place and Nature33:17 The Role of Packers in Conservation37:23 Challenges Facing Public Lands and Packers40:39 The Importance of Community and Connection to Land43:31 The Future of Packing and Conservation51:02 Innovative Approaches to Outdoor Education56:57 Hope for the Future of Public Lands
 

In this episode, Ned Weidner explores the complex relationship between masculinity, predatory energy, and how modern culture handles these innate instincts. Through personal stories about hunting and reflection on societal patterns, he emphasizes the importance of conscious relationship with power to foster integrity and authenticity.
Connect with Ned @stepintoyourwild
Key Topics:
The prevalence of predatory energy in human nature and its manifestation in modern culture
The dangers of repressing versus integrating primal instincts
Stories of hunting as rites of passage that teach responsibility, consciousness, and relationship to death
The distinction between unconscious consumption and conscious power
The concept of shadow in Jungian psychology applied to masculinity
The cultural myths about evil and the importance of internalizing awareness of one's own potential for harm
The necessity of rites of passage and mentorship in maturing masculine energy
Practical insights on how hunting can serve as an act of initiation and self-awareness
The dangers of dualistic views on masculinity: indulgence vs suppression
Timestamps:
00:00 - The shocking prevalence of predatory energy in modern society
02:11 - Why repression isn't the answer to primal instincts
03:35 - The significance of experiencing death through hunting
04:43 - How hunting fosters humility and connection to responsibility 06:14 - The lessons traditional rites of passage teach about power 07:47 - Jung’s shadow and its relevance to masculine energy
08:53 - The dangers of externalizing evil and how it distorts self-awareness
12:43 - Stories of Joe and the deer: conscious relationship with power 14:34 - The importance of making deliberate choices in confronting energy
16:28 - How hunting integrates predatory energy without succumbing to domination
17:29 - The role of intention and curiosity in hunting and masculinity 19:24 - Recognizing the wildness within and choosing how to hold power
21:11 - Moving beyond repression and indulgence toward relationship and mastery
22:47 - Practical ways hunting acts as a rite of passage for masculine maturity
24:25 - The necessity of honesty, curiosity, and openness in embracing power
25:39 - Final reflections: stay curious, connected, and wild
 

In this conversation, I interview Nick Buckmaster, a senior environmental scientist with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. We discuss the ecological significance of desert pupfish and Lahontan cutthroat trout, the challenges of invasive species, and the importance of conservation efforts in the Eastern Sierra. Nick shares insights into his work, the Heritage Trout Program, and the role of fishing in fostering a connection to nature. Our conversation highlights the need for community involvement in conservation and the impact of fishing licenses on funding these efforts.
Get into the wild with Ned: https://www.stepintoyourwild.com/ 
 
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Nick Buckmaster and His Role02:44 Understanding Desert Pupfish: Ecology and Importance06:51 Exploring the Eastern Sierra: Geography and Biodiversity09:03 Conservation Efforts for Pupfish Recovery12:05 Challenges in Managing Invasive Species13:35 Ecological Role of Pupfish in Their Habitat15:53 Personal Connection to Fishing and Conservation21:03 Favorite Fishing Spots and Experiences24:01 Lahontan Cutthroat Trout: History and Characteristics27:04 The Evolution of Cutthroat Trout29:12 Life History and Morphology of Lahontan Cutthroat Trout32:36 Restoration Projects for Lahontan Cutthroat Trout36:27 Challenges in Fish Restoration and Management40:40 The Role of Recreation in Conservation47:35 Heritage Trout Program and Its Importance54:21 Community Involvement in Conservation Efforts
 

In this episode, Scottish ecologist Linzi Seivwright shares her journey from childhood fascination with deer to her current work managing deer populations and habitats in Scotland. She discusses land ownership, deer management strategies, balancing ecological health with cultural values, and engaging communities in conservation efforts. This conversation explores the cultural significance of deer in Scotland, deer management practices, the role of hunting as a responsibility versus a right, and innovative approaches to sustainable land stewardship and community engagement. It highlights the importance of hope, collaboration, and connecting people with nature through responsible deer management and venison production.
Connect with Linzi: https://caorann.com/about-2 
Findhorn Venison: https://findhornvenison.co.uk/ 
 
Learn to Hunt and fish with Ned: https://www.stepintoyourwild.com/ 
 
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Lindsay Seivwright and Scottish Conservation02:54 The Landscape of Murrayshire and Deer Management05:59 Childhood Influences and Early Passion for Ecology08:54 Connecting Young People with Nature and Careers11:41 Cultural Significance of Deer in Scotland15:08 Challenges in Deer Management and Conservation17:56 Balancing Ecosystem Health and Deer Populations21:02 Diverse Landowner Groups and Management Plans22:10 Creating Deer Management Plans25:24 Hunting as Responsibility vs. Right27:10 Cultural Significance of Deer in Scotland28:38 Balancing Tradition and Technology in Deer Management29:46 Challenges of Hunting Rights and Responsibilities32:12 Connecting Communities with Hunting40:02 The Venison Story and Local Food Security51:46 Future of Deer Management and Conservation Collaboration
 
 

In this episode, Tovar Cerulli and I engage in a profound conversation about hunting, its cultural roots, ethical considerations, and its role in shaping our relationship with death. We explore how hunting is more than a way to procure food — it's a practice deeply intertwined with identity, spirituality, and ecological awareness.
To connect with Tovar: https://tovarcerulli.com/
 
If you want to hunt, fish, or learn wilderness skills from Ned: @stepintoyourwild
 
Key Topics:
Tovar Cerulli’s personal journey from veganism to hunting as a means of reconnecting with nature
Cultural history of hunting in North America, including its associations with nobility, class, and identity
The ecological concept of coexistence, and how it involves accepting death as part of life
The psychological and spiritual significance of hunting moments of connection and sacredness
The critique of hunter education and the importance of social, emotional, and ritual infrastructure to initiate new hunters
Evolving notions of coexistence, shifting from no harm to accepting death as a natural process
The role of hunting as a pathway to accepting mortality and enhancing compassion and understanding in society
The importance of making outdoor and hunting spaces more inclusive and accessible
Timestamps:
(00:00) - Introduction: The cultural complexity of hunting and its significance
(03:16) - The history and archetypes of the hunter: nobility, rednecks, and societal perceptions
(08:52) - Ethical ambiguity and perceptions of hunters in American culture
(13:00) - Moments of sacredness and connection during hunting experiences
(16:10) - The meaning of coexistence: from no harm to accepting mortality
(21:11) - How hunting shapes the relationship with death and mortality
(27:25) - Integrating death into the psyche: emotional and spiritual impacts
(34:30) - Initiation into hunting: education, ceremony, and cultural infrastructure
(40:18) - Modern efforts to provide social and emotional support for new hunters
(45:00) - Closing thoughts: inclusion, access, and the future of hunting culture

In this episode, Doug Duren discusses the evolution of land ownership, conservation, and community-driven management. He explores how sharing land can enhance wildlife habitats, foster relationships, and support sustainable land use practices rooted in Leopoldian principles.
Connect with Doug: 
Instagram
Sharing the Land
Want to Reconnect to a wilder way of living? Step Into Your Wild
 
Timestamp:
00:00 - Introduction to the concept of the opposed rally game cooperative00:16 - Doug’s day and commitments amid land conservation discussions00:30 - Origins of sharing the land and its connection to Leopold’s ideas01:02 - The history of the Leopold cooperative and habitat improvements in Wisconsin01:57 - Land access and community engagement in conservation03:19 - Challenges of recruiting hunters and land accessibility today04:01 - The significance of hunting as a conservation tool05:00 - Matching landowners with access seekers via software platforms06:28 - Practical advice for starting small and building trust with landowners07:57 - Examples of land use and the importance of voluntary cooperation08:18 - The contribution of hunters to conservation through deer management09:21 - Perspectives on the negative impacts of overpopulation and habitat loss10:54 - Habitat challenges across the Midwest and historical land use changes11:21 - The importance of understanding land history and the evolution of ecosystems12:40 - Flaws in the North American conservation model and habitat-focused management14:42 - Broader conservation funding sources beyond hunting and license fees16:05 - The need for science-based management addressing habitat and species diversity17:34 - Innovative approaches like eco-hunting and the need for habitat-centric policies18:51 - The importance of young hunters and fostering a conservation ethic19:50 - The potential for selling venison as a sustainable management tool22:55 - How science and habitat management can address the overabundance of white-tailed deer25:43 - The role of programs like CRP, EQIP, and the US Fish & Wildlife Service in habitat restoration27:20 - Land management practices from past to present and their ecological impacts29:02 - The significance of land history, storytelling, and long-term stewardship32:46 - The origins and purpose of sharing the land as a community effort34:56 - The story of Hans Moritz Bach and land conservation through ownership and stewardship37:47 - Building a network of willing landowners and access seekers for mutual benefit40:38 - The future of land sharing and conservation through community engagement44:32 - Teaching and learning through direct experience and the importance of place-based knowledge47:33 - The joy of observing land’s natural progression and personal connection49:02 - Practical advice for landowners interested in conservation and community sharing50:41 - Final thoughts on maintaining land health and fostering reciprocal relationships

In this conversation, Chris Wood discusses his journey from a passion for fishing to a career in conservation, emphasizing the importance of protecting cold water fisheries and public lands. He highlights the significance of the Roadless Rule, the role of sportsmen in conservation efforts, and the ongoing challenges faced in the field. The conversation also touches on the Klamath River restoration project and the need for community engagement to combat apathy towards conservation. Chris shares insights on the healing power of nature and the optimism that drives conservationists to continue their work despite the challenges.
 
To connect with Trout Unlimited: @troutunlimited
 
Want to learn to hunt or fish? https://www.stepintoyourwild.com/
 
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Chris Wood and His Work02:58 Early Fishing Memories and Connection to Nature05:54 The Transition from Fishing to Conservation08:54 The Roadless Rule and Its Importance11:50 Current Challenges Facing the Roadless Rule19:35 Rallying Voices for Conservation22:03 The Importance of Roadless Areas23:07 Connecting with Decision Makers27:20 Organizing for Conservation30:33 Restoring River Ecosystems34:49 The Resilience of Native Fish48:55 Optimism in Conservation58:30 The Call to Action

Unlocking Leadership Through the Wisdom of Plants and Ecosystems
In this episode, Ned Weidner explores the surprising connection between ecological systems and effective leadership. Discover how learning to see the complexity in nature can transform your perception, decision-making, and ability to lead with clarity and resilience.
Key Topics:
The ecological importance of biodiversity in alpine meadows and its parallels to organizational resilience
How oversimplification and "plant blindness" hinder our understanding of complex systems
The role of perception, attunement, and relational awareness in leadership
Practical insights from learning plant identification to develop leadership skills
The dangers of monocultures in ecosystems and organizations and the benefits of diversity
Techniques for training perception and developing nuanced judgment
The importance of slow observation and relationship mapping for leaders
How societal and political structures collapse under oversimplified narratives
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: The connection between ecological systems and leadership00:19 - The ecological importance of alpine meadows and biodiversity00:31 - How diversity preserves water flow and ecosystem resilience01:00 - The role of complexity in ecological functions and societal systems01:29 - Oversimplification and "green stuff": misunderstanding ecosystems02:16 - The impact of ideological narratives on perception02:59 - How perception collapse leads to societal division03:29 - The importance of understanding relationships and system complexity03:43 - Leadership as navigating complex, intertwined systems04:28 - Flattening complexity in political and social narratives05:07 - Learning plants as a method to train perception and attunement05:35 - Developing sensory awareness through plant identification06:24 - Recognizing relationships and diversity in ecosystems07:03 - The concept of monocultures and their fragility07:33 - Resilience in diverse ecosystems versus monocultures08:09 - Societal monocultures and echo chambers in thought08:40 - Collapse of fragile thought structures under stress09:07 - The importance of interspecies dependencies and resilience09:36 - Shifting perception in nature hikes from surface to depth10:00 - Learning plant relationships and traditional uses10:27 - The transformative moment of connecting with wild nature11:12 - How observing relationships creates resilient perspectives11:51 - Learning plants to enhance perception and leadership judgment12:21 - The connection between nuanced perception and good decision-making13:03 - The societal crisis: Loss of perception, attunement, and relationships13:39 - Fast-paced media training causes superficial understanding14:10 - Slow observation as the key to developing leadership skills14:40 - Rebuilding attention and attunement through plant learning15:08 - The difference between ideological and ecological leadership15:39 - Invitation to deepen perception skills through outdoor programs16:07 - Final thoughts: The path to better leadership is through understanding nature
Connect with Ned:
IG @stepintoyourwild
TikTok @stepintoyourwild
YouTube @stepintoyourwild